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  • Sandals

    There are a number of people who have found using sandals or water shoes to be highly effective.  They provide excellent ventilation for your feet, and are ideal when you are in wet conditions because they don’t hold water against your feet.  The downsides of using sandals or water shoes are that your feet get really dirty and most sandals don’t protect your toes.

    I really like Luna Venado Sandals for street running and walking on city streets. I have used them in the back country, but they don’t have a lot of traction. If I am in the back country I often switch to a pair of Luna Oso Flaco Sandals. Enough ground feel that they don’t feel “dead” when I run in them, but enough traction to use in the back country. Bedrock Cairn 3D Sandals are the best pure hiking sandals I have found: grippy on the top and bottom but a bit dead feeling. Fairly compact for packing, weights about the same as a minimalist trail running.

    Keen  makes a wide range of shoe including sandal like shoes with a toe guard. I wore them for many use to protect my toes. Last time I looked the Clearwater was their lightest model. Many people seem to love the durable but heavy Chaco Sandals, which are a bit like taking a the sole from a really heavy duty boot and put sandal straps. I don’t use them because they have a very pronounced arch support ridge which hits me in exactly the wrong place. Teva and Xero Shoes make a wide variety of sandals which can be used for a wide variety of activities. Beside Luna and Bedrock, Earthrunners, Unshoes, and I am sue a number of companies make minimalist versions of Huaraches running sandals. Mayflyultralight made an ultralight sandal which doesn’t have a strap between your toes. There was a nice set of mini reviews of minimalist running sandals on reddit.

  • Trail Runners

    For most conditions provided you are carrying less than approximately 40 lb, I would strongly recommend trying trail running shoes because they can be quite comfortable and will be lighter than the more traditional hiking shoes or boots. I have heard people express concerns about hiking in trail runners. I will observe that if your survey people who complete the long trails like the AT & PCT you will find the vast majority wore trail runners. I wrote up a brief comparison of using trail runners vs boot.

    There are lots of good trail running shoes on the market these days.  There are a number of factors you should consider when looking at a trail runner:

    • Fit: If the shoes don’t fit you, skip them. You need to find shoes which fit the shape and volume of your foot. Pay particular attention to how well the heel box hold you and if there is enough space around your toes. Some people buy shoes that are 1-2 sizes larger than normal, in a narrower width to give their toes maximum space.
    • Foot Support: You should start with a wet foot test to figure out what cushioning and control features you might want. But keep in mind that the Cochrane meta analysis indicates that control features don’t seem significant reduce injuries. Advocates of minimalist shoes would argue that you should address this issue through effective conditions rather than using a crutch for the rest of your life.
    • Type of Sole:  The sole of the shoe will determine what some of terrain you will have good traction and how durable the sole will be. Softer materials typically have better traction on hard / flat surfaces but wear more quickly. Deep / aggressive soles with lugs are the best for variable terrain, especially when there is loose materials.
    • Ventilation: In most cases you will want a highly ventilated shoe to let your feet breath. There is a trade off for the ventilation which is external moisture can get in, and extreme ventilation (light mesh) will not protect your feet from thorns and other pointy plant material.

    If there is an athletic shoe manufacturer that seems to make shoes that fit you well, I would look to see if they make a “trail running” model, and try that. If there is no manufacturer that you are more inclined, you might see what shoes are recommended by the wet foot test at runners world and/or check out the descriptions and reviews on running warehouse. The following are some of the popular manufacturers that I have had experience with.  Note: the models listed in the next section are likely out of date.  I have found shoes that work really well for me, so I typically am not following shoes too closely anymore:

    • Altra: Maybe the most popular sure among light weight backpackers. Good traction, wide toe box. Offer a variety of stack hieghts/cushion options. The Altra Superior was my default shoe between 2017-2022.
    • Hoka: Very popular with ultra-runners and long distance backpackers. Lots of cushion. I personally don’t like them because the stack is too high for me. I like minimalist shoes.
    • Inov-8: Inov-8 was one of the first companies to make minimalist shoes for the outdoors. They developed a significant cult following popular among fell runners, ultra-runners, ultralight backpackers, and with some adventure racers. Their lightest shoes are about as close as you can get to going barefoot while having something on your feet. One really nice thing about Inov-8 is that they have committed not to make gratuitous changes to models, and will keep making old models until it is no longer economically feasible. I wore 14 pairs of Inov-8 315 flyrocs… the last pair was the same as the first. The Trailfly 270 G became my standard shoe in 2022. I get ~1200 miles before they wear out, around 3x more than most trail runners.
    • La Sportiva: Makes trail runners and good approach shoes (like TX line)
    • Montrail: Velocity line on trail runners were quite popular with the light weight backpacking community. In particular, the  Hardrock and Vitesse models. Montrail tends to have a more generous toe box than many other manufacturers. In the past years Montrail seems to be losing their way makes shoes which doesn’t seem to compare favorability to previous years designs.
    • New Balance: Seem to have been one of the earliest manufacturers that embraced trail runners by introducing the  M801AT. This was a great line of shoes, but NB kept change the design.  They were good through the M804-807 depending on who you ask but but the M808-809 really sucked. Hopefully NB will learn the lesson and not play with working designs until they break them.  I don’t have experience with NB current shoes, thought I might give one of their minimalist shoes a try soon. New Balance is one of the few manufacturers which offers there shoes in a wide range of widths… so if you have a particular wide or narrow foot, I would start with New Balance.
    • Norda: New company that I have no personal experience with. Have read they are taking a materials first approach to improve durability for shoes which last >1000 miles.
    • Salomon: Makes a number of shoes lines which might be of interest including the XA, Speedcross, and Amphibian. Salomon shoes tend to run wide through the entire shoe. The fast lacing system is interesting, but it limited customizing fit by changing lacing and it’s hard to repair in the field.

    Manufacturers that I don’t have a lot of experience with recently, but are worth a look include Adidas (Supernova), Asics, Brooks (Trail Addiction), Mizuno (Wave Ascend), Nike, Saucony (Peregrines), Topo. There are also a number of minimalist trail runners.

    The site runrepeat.com has excellent reviews

    I have other notes about footwear.

  • Socks

    Appropriate socks help keep your feet at a comfortable temperature and play a large part in preventing blisters.  Blisters come from the combination of friction, moisture, and temperature. You want socks which wick moisture away from you feet and minimize the amount of friction between the sock and your foot which is often best accomplished by using two socks. I think nylon and wool are the best materials for socks, and cotton is really terrible.

    My Choice

    I primarily use Darn Tough Ultralight No-Shows which have lasted >=4000 miles before needing to be replaced. and recently added in Xoskin anklet toes socks which seem to resist odor reasonably and are effectively preventing blisters between my toes. My first pair develop a hole that was easily repaired after 640 miles. At 800 there are some small holes in the highest friction area (between my hammer toe ) but they are still working well. On my forth pair… average 1200 days of use, way less than my darn tough dock but longer than a pair of trail runners but longer than most toe socks I have tried. This has been mostly wearing sandals… I expect they might last longer inside shoes. In cool and wet weather I will sometimes wear light socks combined with Rocky Gore-Tex over socks. In cold conditions I have found vapor barrier socks to be extremely useful.

    Sock “Fit”

    Keep in mind that there needs to be enough room in your shoe for your feet and the socks you select. Socks which are too thick for your shoes will crowd your feet and result in blisters just as quickly as your feet sliding around.  I would strongly recommend trying a variety of different socks and figure out what works best for you. Socks are cheap and will often mean the difference between a miserable blister plagued trip, and one with comfortable feet.

    Double Socks for Hiking

    Conventional wisdom for people wearing hiking boots is to wear a heavy wool sock, with an very light weight inner liner. Dr. Murray Hamlet of the Army Cold Weather Research Center confirmed this with an extensive testing of a variety of sock systems. The first set of these tests was documented in the report Impact of Sock Systems on Frequency and Severity of Blister Injury in a Marine Recruit Population.

    Hamlet and team found that a thin liner sock made of CoolMax, and a thicker sock made of wool&polypro (fuzzy side out) had a significantly reduced the frequency of blisters. This is because the slipping is happening between the socks rather than between the foot and the sock. TechSpun sells the socks designed by Hamlet.  Besides TechSpun there are a variety of companies which sell high quality wool or wool blend backpacking socks including Bridgeport, Dahlgren, Darn Tough Socks, Fox River, SmartWool, Thorlo, Wigwam.

    Lighter Socks

    People carrying lighter loads and using trail runners or walking shoes often prefer socks that have less bulk. Since lighter shoes tend to flex with the foot, an inner / outer sock combination isn’t as critical as when using boots. Some people find double socks are helpful with trail runners. Some low bulk ways to get double socks include using a pair of knee high stockings + a light outer sock, two pairs of nylon dress socks,  WrightSocks DoubleSocks, or X-Socks (I have no experience with).

    Single socks I would recommend for trail runners include Darn Tough running socks, xoskin socks, Injinji toe socks, Smartwool Adrenaline, asics running socks, Inov-8 Mudsoc (coolmax), and the Bridgedale X-Hale Multisport Socks (multi-fabric blend).

    Extreme Conditions

    I have a pair of posts which address footwear (which includes socks) in particularly wet or cold conditions.

    Cheap

    Use a double pair of nylon dress socks.

  • Hiking Boots (and Shoes)

    Historically people wore heavy weight boots for backpacking, trekking, etc.  Your feet need to be protected, and what could do a better job that a  heavy boot which will help prevent sprained ankles and give excellent support? 

    Actually, most boots don’t give good “ankle support”.  The sides of the boot are flexible.  Only extremely stiff boots like the modern, hard plastic telemark ski boots or mid-calf jump boots actually provide good ankle support.  What actually helps protect your ankle in good quality hiking boots are a high quality heel cup, a well formed foot bed, and good traction.  This helps prevent your foot from suddenly shifting which is the source of most ankle injuries.

    A special case for using boots is when you need your feet protected in a dangerous environment. The classic example of this is steel toed boots warn on construction sites.

    Historically hiking boots were very heavy and used full leather on the uppers. These days, boot uppers are often a mixture of leather, nylon, and even plastic. If you need truly heavy duty boots I would recommend full leather boots with a Norwegian welt made in Europe, ideally by Italian companies like Scarpa.

    Most of the companies which “back in the day” used to only sell 5lb all leather boots make light weight hiking boots and shoes. These boots and shoes tend to be much more durable than trail runners and “walking” shoes. They also tend to have stiffer soles which is useful when facing terrain which benefits from a good “edge” and lateral stiffness.  There are a number of old favorites which see to make popular light weight boots and shoes:

    Most people can get away will lighter weight boots. I converted to using trail runners around 2001, so I can’t provide recommendations about specific products.

    There are some people who strongly advocate for the modern military boot, noting that it has been significantly improved from the boots of years gone past that were appropriately disparaged. A detailed longterm review of Belleville Boots.

  • Feet in Snow and Cold

    In colder weather, people often struggle with their feet getting cold.  There are a number of reasons for this

    • Feet are the furthest point from your core which is generating heat.
    • Feet are subjected to conductive cooling through the soles of your shoes/boots.
    • Feet sweat a lot.  Many people’s shoes hold in all the moisture.  Wet moves heat much more quickly than dry.
    • Tight fitting footwear (often caused by extra thick socks) constrict blood flow.

    While there are a number of issues which make keeping feet warm enough challenging, there are a number of approaches which have been proven to be effective.

    Vapor Barrier Socks

    VP socks can be used with any of the below footwear options. I have found VB socks a huge win once the temperature is below around 10F. Warmlite and  RBH Designs make vapor barrier socks.  The cheapest vapor barriers can be plastic bags. Bags holding sandwich bread or provided at some office buildings for wet umbrellas are an ideal shape, though you should expect them to last just a day or two before you rub a hole in them.  Small Mylar cooking bags are a bit more durable, but are hard to find in the right shape. My first attempt using vapor barriers was a pair of liners, a bread bag, wool sock, another bread bag to keep my wool socks dry, and then boots. Dave from owareusa suggested that rather than sliding the outer bread bag in and out, to put your insole inside the outer bag… leaving the bag in the shoe. He noted that he gets 5 days out of the bag then rather than a day or two. Haven’t tried this yet, but it makes sense. For the last couple of years I have used a pair of RBH insulated vapor barrier socks and trailrunners. This has been good for me down to 0F without any problems.

    Trailrunners and Water Protective Socks

    This is the approach I most often use.  On most trips I have found that waterproof socks and trail runners (goretex oversocks + trail runners + gaiters) worked well in 20F conditions, even in deep snow. I recently went on a trip that this didn’t work well. For some reason my feet felt cold and damp. Even though it was moderate weather and only dropped to 28F, my feet were freezing but my socks didn’t leak. Other people have reported good results using neoprene socks. In the winter of 2007/8 I picked up a pair of Inov-8 RocLite 390 GTX to try out. These boots plus my vapor barrier socks kept my feet warm down to 0F.

    Hiking Boots & Socks

    A classic approach to keeping feet warm are thick wool socks and a water”proof”  hiking boot. The boots protect against external moisture and the socks provide insulation. A slight variation on this theme are boots which have additional insulation. Socks are periodically changed and dried (place over your shoulders under your jacket, around a hot water bottle, or over your stomach while you are in a sleeping bag.) Hiking boots typically have a hard sole, with an aggressive trend which provide good traction except when facing extremely icy conditions. One thing to watch out for is that the boots will absorb some water, and in colder conditions the boots will then freeze. It takes a lot of work to thaw solidly frozen boots. Don’t let your boots freeze. My favorite light weight, insulated boot today is the Keen Growler.  I think this is a good option for -20F through 20F.

    Synthetic Boots w/ Foam Insulation

    There are two different types. Some are designed for hardcore mountaineering, and have hard, plastic exteriors. Others are primarily designed for protection against the cold such as those made by Baffin and will be softer. This approach will keep feet quite warm. The synthetic materials doesn’t absorb water, so the only moisture problem will be what your feet produce. In extreme cold (< -20F) I think this is the best solution.

    Mukluks

    Traditional Inuit footwear made from animal hides. Steger Mukluks seems to be one of the best regarded manufacturers. Mukluks don’t have high traction soles which are needed for walking on ice, but if you are on ice, you already have crampons (stand-alone or part of your snowshoes), so not having this on your shoes should work just fine.

    Overshoes

    NEOS, Forty Below, Outdoor Research’s Brooks Range can be an effective way to keep feet warm in very cold conditions. When using overshoes, you typically are wearing some sort of footwear inside the overboot which  provide a good footbed. Some people don’t wear shoes inside the overshoes, but rather use them as sort of a high tech mukluk. I found overshoes in basic cold (>=0F) to be overkill, and more bother than they were worth. In extreme cold I can see whether they could be quick useful.

    Booties

    Once you are in camp, it is often useful to have comfy, insulated footwear.  There are a variety of companies that make down or primaloft booties including Goosefeet, Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, etc.

  • Feet in Wet Conditions

    One of my footwear posts.

    In general you want to keep your feet dry.  There are a variety of ways you feet can get wet. The most dramatic are river crossings, followed by rain, snow, and slush. The final issue is sweat from your own feet (feet can dissipate up to 2 cups of water in a day). There are several approaches people use in an attempt to keep feet reasonably dry: There was an article at BPL about spring footwear that is appropriate for cool, wet conditions when there is a real risk of the temperature dropping from cool to cold.

    If you feet are exposed to water (which moves heat 27x more efficiently that air) for an extended time, you run the risk of trench foot. Typically trench foot occurs when feet and continuously wet, in cool to cold conditions. The symptoms of trench foot are numbness, pain, and swelling. I have read that theoretically it is possible to get trench foot after just 12 hours when feet are in 61F temperatures. In practice, if you can dry / warm up your feet overnight it’s unlikely to be an issue. I have experienced, and know many thru hikers and outdoor folks who have had there feet soaked and cold all day. Unpleasant, yes, but no trench foot when they dried their feet at end of the day.

    “Quick” Dry

    Use footwear which is highly breathable and quick to dry (sandals, water shoes, or trail runners with a lot of light-weight mesh) on the assumption that their feet will get wet, but then will dry. Shoes will often dry overnight. When it is cool and high humidity shoes will still be damp in the morning unless they absorbed very little water. It’s no fun to put on damp shoes in the morning, but that’s life sometimes. Wet trail runners being worn while active without additional external moisture will mostly dry in a reasonable amount of time thanks to body heat plus the pounding of the feet which drives out moisture. In many cases the footbeds often soak up water. If the cushions / footbeds in your shoes are removable, make sure to tend them out and dry them separately.

    There was some data about time it takes for a variety of different types of trail runners to dry in the open air in the forum posting about Inov-8 & Timberline Delerion (and other fast drying shoes) and a second posting of fast drying shoes.  Bottom line is that shoes in a cool location take a long time (>15 hours) to fully dry. On the other hand, shoes can dry significantly in just a couple of hours if you feet are active and you don’t have external water sourced to deal with or if the shoes are sitting in bright sunlight. BPL did a nice article about water weight gain and loss in lightweight shoes. There are a number of light weight trail runners that will absorb between 15-30% water weight after being soaked, and be down to 4-10% weight gain after a couple of hours of use. So it is possible to soak your shoes in the mid-afternoon, get them mostly dry by the end of the day, and see them fully dry over night.

    It should be noted that in some environments that “quick” dry will never dry. Some of our friends down under report that between rain and river crossings their feet are wet until they go to bed. What they have reported as that so long as they are using light weight, flexible, highly breathable trail runners which fit well, and a good pair of socks that they have avoided blisters. In these sorts of conditions some people have had very good experiences coating feet that are going to be continuously wet with Hydropel.

    Comfortable While Wet

    Another approach is to have footwear that keeps feet comfortable, even if they are continuously wet. This requires providing an environment where there is no binding or hot spots. The classic way to do this is with neoprene socks. They can keep feet comfortable because they stay in place around the feet and the friction is on the outside, they keep trail dust from getting through to the skin avoiding the “sandpaper” experience than can come from mixing water crossings with dusty trails, and with the appropriate thickness can insulate.

    Recently I have been using xotoes socks (on third pair >3000 miles total) without blisters in both dry and wet conditions including a month of 16 miles days wearing sandals and trips where my feet were soaked all day in a pair of Inov8 Trailfly G 270 trail runners. One trip I was walking in a river (slot canyon) for a couple of days, on another crossing rivers every 10-30 minutes for several days.

    “Waterproof” Socks

    I have found waterproof breathable socks such as Rocky Gore-Tex oversocks are more breathable than “waterproof” boots when worn inside highly breathable trail runners or sandals. I have also found these socks to be more waterproof than the boots and that I can dry the gore-tex socks over night. Skinskiz are similar, but are not nearly as good as the Rocky Gore-Tex. When wearing waterproof socks you don’t need to worry about your shoes getting wet, because you feet are protected inside the sock. They also keep your feet clean… often mesh trail runners let a lot of small dirt particles in. It’s possible to seal the top of the socks so they can be submerged and keep your feet dry. My experience is that unless it’s cool (say below 40F) gore-tex socks are too warm and my feet sweat more than the socks can breath. I take great enjoyment walking around town when it is cold and rainy. The city “sense” is different. I will often do this wearing waterproof socks and sandals.

    “Waterproof” Boots

    One of the most common approaches is the use of waterproof boots.  For example, boots with Gore-Tex liners or leather boots with Snowseal or Nikwax to the outside of your footwear.  While these approaches will keep external moisture at bay for a time (my experience is for a few days at best). Once the inside of boot gets wet, it stays wet for a long time. Alas, while good at keeping external water out, they also tend to hold water in.  You feet will stew in the sweat they generated. Waterproof boots are useless when crossing water because the water will flow in over the tops.

    Extra Shoes / Barefoot

    Some people focus on dealing with external moisture when fording streams, walk through the surf, or otherwise immerse feet in water. The most common approach is to carry a spare pair of footwear such as sport sandals like Tevas which often add 1.2lb to your load or the slightly lighter Crocs. Some people use minimalist shoes or sandals mentioned above for water crossing. There are a number of companies that make socks with some sort of grippy “sole” such as Grip Socks which is an option. The lightest options (and one of the cheapest) I have found are nylon mesh pool shoes which provide modest protection to the soles of my feet and some slight traction. I have known people who wear just socks but I don’t think that makes a lot of sense because their traction is worse than bare feet and they offer little real protection. Some people do water crossings by taking their shoes off and going barefoot. This is a low weight option, but runs the risk of bruising or cutting your foot. I do go barefoot for crossings when the crossing is the only reason my feet would be wet and I am confident that the riverbed doesn’t have a lot of sharp rocks.

  • Goto Backpacking Gear

    Thought it would be interesting to see how my primary items have changed over time:  I am ignoring items that were used briefly or for testing purpose. For a while I was regularly purchasing new gear and trying it our. When I found something that was “better” than what I was using, I would potentially hold on to the old item for my “loaning library”, or see it to fund my gear habit. In recent years I have been slowly giving away / selling items I was holding as “loaner”. What I still own is bolded.

    Packs

    Something like 18 packs tested but not considered “goto”. Never became go-to but I used the SMD StarLite and Gossamer Gear Whisper a fair bit. LuxuryLite was the most innovative pack I owned for a bit but didn’t work for me.

    • Kelty Model “B” Pack… 1972-1978
    • JanSport D3 (replace destroyed pack)… 1978-2000
    • Gregory Forester (wanted something more comfortable)… 2000-2001
    • GoLite Speed Pack (looking for something lighter)… 2001-2002
    • Granite Gear Vapor Trail (more comfortable, became a loaner after I purchased the Gorilla and was gifted to someone in need)… 2002-2014
    • Osprey Aether 60 (Volume / comfort for heavier / longer trip, adjustable so good loaner until given to friend’s son)… 2002-2020
    • Gossamer Gear Gorilla (lighter, smaller – the right volume for me, and support business I believed in, gifted to a friend)… 2009-2025
    • Hanchor Tufa (works a bit better for combining urban and back country trips. If under packed can smush into a personal item sizer)… 2023-
    • Durston Wapta 30 (light, water proof, carry on compliant, super comfortable for me up to 15lb, really convenient usage while moving)… 2025-

    Sleeping Bags

    Often borrowed by dad’s down bag which was made by L.L. Bean. For cold (<0F) winter trips borrowed a friend’s Warmlite sleeping bag or rented bag. My family had several other sleeping bags which were used by members of my family, and I experimented with a BPL cocoon synthetic quilt as a stand-alone and over-quilt for a year or so.

    • White Stag Synthetic Bag… 1972-1977
    • North Face Cat’s Meow (old bag lost loft)… 1977-1985
    • North Face Cat’s Meow (old bag lost loft)… 1985-1988
    • North Face Cat’s Meow (old bag stolen)… 1989-2002
    • Marmot Arroyo (old bag lost loft)… 2001-2002
    • NuntakUSA Ghost (Lighter and warmer than Arroyo) 2003-
    • Western Mountaineering Versalite (for winter trips and loaner… sold because I no longer regularly doing trips below 20F)… 2004-2020

    Shelters – Solo

    • MSR Zoid 1 (my first solo tent)… 2001-2001
    • Brawny Poncho Tarp (lighter for solo trips)… 2002-2004
    • Gossamer Gear Spinnshelter (better storm protection)… 2004-2008
    • Gossamer Gear The One Version 1 (more space, bug free)… 2008-2010
    • ZPacks Hexamid (lighter, packed smaller, easier for me to pitch)… 2010-2022
    • Gossamer Gear Whisper (easier entry, separate floor, smaller lighter than using X-mid Pro 2 for solo trips)… 2024-

    Shelter for 2

    Either used larger shelters (below) or borrow shelters for hardcore snow trips. Favorite snow shelters I borrowed were Warmlite, Hilleberg, and Bibler. Snow trips ended because my wife doesn’t enjoy them and I don’t enjoy solo snow trips.

    • Boy Scout Voyager Tent (both original canvas and later nylon versions)
    • North Face Tuolumne Tent with snow tunnel entrance A frame front pole, I rear pole… 1974-1982
    • … see below, used larger tents for awhile…
    • Six Moon Designs Original Europa (lighter shelter to share)… 2002-2002
    • Tarptent Squall (more ventilation, better / faster pitch)… 2002-2005. One of the most elegant shelters I have used. One of the shelters I most miss.
    • SD Lighting (sometimes wanted freestanding)… 2004-2007
    • Tarptent Squall2 (replaced Squall… more room than the Squall for two people)… 2005-2008
    • Tarptent Double Rainbow (more protective than squall, lighter than lighting… sold Lightning, Squall2 became loaner)… 2007-2014
    • MLD SuperFly (lighter weight, better in shoulder seasons… sold Squall2, Double Rainbow became loaner)… 2008-2014. I miss this shelter, though the X-mid Pro 2 is move versatile and just slightly heavier.
    • BA Copper Spur 2 (Wanted free standing, easy setup when loaning)… 2014-2022
    • Durston X-mid Pro 2 (Save weight, light enough I could get by with just one shelter?) 2022-

    Large Shelters

    • Sierra Designs Three Man Hex Tent (dad’s.. so I couldn’t always use it)… 1970-1985. I loved this tent! So many good memories.
    • Eureka 4 man Timberline “Free Standing” A-Frame
    • Largish “Patrol Tarp” 1976-1988
    • Sierra Designs Stretch Dome (wanted more space than NF Tuolumne, specially in winter)… 1982-1988
    • Sierra Designs 3/4 Season Convertible 3 Person Nightwatch (Stretch Dome stolen)… 1988-2002
    • 4 Person Free Standard Car Camping Tent made by Moss (family car camping replacing Nightwatch which was delaminating)… 2001-2011
    • GoLite Hex3 (group backpacking)… 2003-2008
    • GoLite Shangra-La 4 (more room, easier setup for groups)… 2009-2016
    • MSR Carbon Reflect 3 (free standing, smaller footprint)… 2012-2022. Not Needed… kids no longer come with Jackie and me.

    Group Stove

    • Svea 123 – 1969-1978 (dad’s)
    • Gerry Mini Canister Stove when Svea 123 was not avail – 1976-1978
    • MSR X??- 1978-1989
    • MSR ???  had a plastic fuel tube (replace stolen stove) – 1989-2000
    • MSR Whisperlite International  (MSR ??? recalled, tube unsafe) – 2000-2005
    • Snowpeak GS100 (easy to use, light weight, low carbon monoxide)… 2002-
    • Coleman Xtreme (winter and bigger groups… until fuel no longer made)… 2005-2011

    Solo Stove

    • Several homemade and a few “commercial” Alcohol Stove starting with the Photon… 2002-2004
    • Ion Alcohol Stove (more fuel efficient and less hassle, but slow)… 2004-2009
    • UL Caldera Cone (easier to use and faster than Ion, normally esbits)… 2009-

    Pots

    Some experimenting with small pots and Mug over the years, but never for an extended period of time.

    • Boy Scout Mess Kit with mini pot (used Troops cook kit)… 1974-1978
    • MSR Alpinelite Cook Kit (First multi-person cook set)… 1978-2001
    • MSR DuraLite (car camping, Alpinelite lost)… 2001-2021
    • Evernew .9L pot (lighter weight)… 2001-2009
    • Evernew 1.3L pot (group backpacking trips and now used car camping)… 2002-
    • MLD 850ML Pot/Mug (more compact than .9L with Caledra)… 2009-

  • Backpacking on the Cheap

    Every year I help organize several backpacking trips for the communities I participate in. Typically we will have several first time backpackers. I often get the question “What should I buy?” Everyone expects the first thing I will suggest is a good pair of boots which isn’t the case. I typically ask people if they already have footwear that they can comfortable walk in all day which has reasonable traction. Most people do so there is nothing to purchase. The next thing they expect me to suggest is getting a new backpack. I typically recommend the backpack to be last item purchased. My advice is to defer as many purchases as possible until they know this is an activity they really like, and they know what sort of backpacking they want to do. What follows are my recommendations about how to minimize the money you spend on backpacking equipment. Ultralight backpacking doesn’t have to be expensive with everything made from materials like DCF, Ultra, Titanium, Merino Wool, and other luxury materials.

    Learn

    I have a number of notes about backpacking on this site which includes a list websites to visit and books you could check out at the library. All my Recommended Outdoor Gear pages recommend low cost options. While dated, there is a nice chapter entitled “Ultralight, Ultracheap” at the end of the document  Lightweight Backpacking 101. There have been a number of online forum threads which discuss a gear list which are light and cheap: pmag’s budget backpacking, BPL ultralight / ultracheap challenge (and other threads about cheap gear lists), dirtbag like a pro, and $200 /20lb Philmont Challenge. More recently there was a $100 list, and many threads on reddit: two examples: cheap gear and <$1000.

    Use Common Items

    When possible use items that you already own rather than purchasing something new for backpacking.  For example, you might have sports oriented clothing like soccer or bike jerseys which make good hot weather hiking shirts, running shoes with good soles can often be used rather than purchasing expensive hiking boots, etc. Ziplock makes some nice “disposal” bowls which work great on the trail or the containers provided by take-out restaurants.  Be creative.

    Delay Purchase – Rent / Borrow

    Delay the purchase of items until you know you really want to commit yourself to backpacking.  What should you do in the mean time?  Check to see if you have friends who would be willing to lend you gear. Try to rent gear from local outdoor outfitter. For example, stores like REI, sports basement, online rental companies like outdoorsgeek.com, nearzero.co, gearo.com, or adventure travel companies like Outback Adventures rent a wide variety of equipment. If you are in school, see if you have an outdoor club which loans out gear. For example, Stanford’s Adventure Outdoor Gear rents many items at prices below any of the commercial outfits. Even after you decide that like backpacking, you should think about the frequency that you take trips -vs- the cost of renting gear.

    Buy the Right Items

    When you do buy gear, make sure that you buy the right products for your needs.  Otherwise, you end up having to buy the same type of item multiple times before you get the right one.  So, make sure whatever you purchase is a quality product  because no only will this be cheaper long term, but it will save you from the unhappy experience of having  your tent, backpack, stove, etc fall apart miles from the trailhead.  [I can tell you from experience that this is no fun!]  Quality doesn’t necessarily mean “name brand” or expensive, but you tend to get what you pay for, especially when it comes to sleeping bags.

    I would also recommend buying only what you need. When you start looking at bargain sites it’s easy to get excited about some item that is deeply discounted.  If you don’t need that item though, even highly discounted is taking away money that would be better spent on your most critical items.

    Assuming you have comfortable shoes, I would recommend a sleeping bag be your first purchase for three reasons (1) it will be useful whether or not you commit yourself to backpacking, (2) a good light weight sleeping bag is one of the best long term purchases you can make (3) a good night sleep can make a huge different in how you enjoy backpacking.

    Homemade

    You can save significant money by making your own gear.  In particular I would suggest using an alcohol stove unless you are doing snow camping.  I would also think seriously about making a sleeping quilt (down or APEX) rather than purchasing a sleeping bag. There are lots of sites that have designs and materials for MYOG / DIY projects. For example:

    Most backpacking forums (backpackinglight, whiteblaze, etc) have MYOG or DIY topic areas.

    Used / Swap

    There are a number of “Used” or “Swap” areas on the various backpacking community sites and at  geartrade.com. While it’s sometimes hard to find light weight backpacking equipment, you can sometimes get lucky on craigslist, thrift stories and on ebay.

    Look for Good Bargains

    When shopping for gear, start by looking at  Sierra Trading Post, steep and cheap, campsaver.com. Mashdrop was great but it seems like they are just doing electronic these days. The frugalhiker blog highlights good value from aliexpress. Decathlon provide good value: 100 are cheap, 500 have good ROI. Most of the big retailers like Campmor and REI have a “on sale” section. The key with any of these bargain sites is to be patient and not to buy things just because they are “cheap”. Only buy what you need. For people in the SF bay area I would recommend checking out The North Face Factory Outlet in Berkeley, and the Patagonia Outlet in Santa Cruz, especially just before labor day and memorial day when their already discounted prices drop another 40%.

  • Backpacking Resources

    Part of Mark’s Backpacking Guide

    Getting Started

    Individuals’ Notes / Sites

    • Andrew Skurka – An accomplished long distance hiker who works as a guide and educator. His website has a number of excellent articles.
    • pmags – Paul Magnanti. Paul comes from the dirt bagging tradition, e.g. be thrifty and focus on the experiences in the field, don’t over optimize and don’t waste your time and money trying to fine “the perfect”.
    • Hiking Life – Cam Honan’s guide to hiking with good details about hiking all across the world. Cam is one of the most accomplished long distance hikers
    • Paul’s Wagner’s Backpack the Sierra – Mix of trip reports / route recommendations, practical tips, etc. Not excessively focused on gear.
    • Frank Revelo’s Biking/Hiking pages. Humble, thoughtful. One of the most pragmatic, almost stoic approach I have seen.
    • Nick Gatel’s PopupBackpacker balanced posts by someone with decades of experience
    • Adventure Allan by Alan Dixon.. a long time contributor to BPL website. Somewhat gear centric, but also some good material on technique as well.
    • Deputy_Sean from /r/ultralight
    • SGT Rock Going Light: and other pages. Gear reviews are somewhat dated but a good bit of practical advice. Was quite influential in the early 2000s. Made the most fuel efficient alcohol stove I ever used.
    • Erin & Higs: have some great trail journals about treks in Alaska
    • TrailQuest Ultralight Hiking Page: Notes from Brawny from the early 2000s.  Somewhat dated, but there is still useful content.
    • Yogi’s pages… best known for her PCT guide.
    • Doing Miles… Amy and James have a number of nice trip reports
    • GearSkeptic… I generally don’t like videos but this is one of the exceptions. Good analysis using experimental method. Occasionally I think his lab experiments don’t capture some of the nuances of in the field use, but still extremely valuable.
    • slowerhiking… a lovely site by an Austrian couple who has been backpacking for decades
    • Hiking in Finland: Hendrik Morkel site with a European take (gear and trips).
    • Section Hiker: Philip Werner is one of the more prolific blogs about light weight backpacking. I don’t always agree with Philip analysis, but a worthwhile site.
    • Cleverhiker by  Dave Collins which is primarily a gear review and trip guide site. Doesn’t have the depth of experience many of the above sites have, but typically has decent survey of gear.
    • Freedirtmonger:

    Books

    • Lighten Up! Complete Ultralight Backpacking by Don Ladigin is the best book to help someone who is a traditional backpack thing about lightening their load. If I could write well, this is exactly the sort of book I would hope to write. Rather than getting bogged down in specific products which would become dated, Don looks at general principles which are easy to apply.
    • The Backpacker’s Handbook by Chris Townsend (now in 4rd edition) is the best general book I have found. Balanced and informative without being as voluminous as The Complete Walker. I wish I could find a shorter book that I could recommend.
    • Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills edited by Steven M. Cox, Kris Fulsaas is the classic guide to mountaineering. Pack full with useful information about mountain environments, snow techniques etc.
    • Hiking and Backpacking by Buck Tilton. Part of the Knack: Make it Easy series. Easy to follow with plenty of pictures. I tend to go a bit lighter weight than what this book discussions, but it’s a good, gentle introduction.
    • The Complete Walker IV by Colin Fletcher is the classic book, comprehensive, through. Great discussions about technique. Interesting discussions about gear. My only regret is that ultra-light gear (other than tarps) are not covered well.

    Online Communities

    • BackpackingLight.com. (BPL) In 2000 this was the best site for people who wanted information about light weight backpacking. In the last few years I feel like they have been stumbling a bit (ugly UI / too many ads, etc) as they have tried to figur out how to be profitable. This site has a mix of articles that are free and availible to a paid subscription, and a forum community which is free. This is one of the best places to learn about what is on the cutting edge of backpacking, be in new materials, gear, or technique. The subscription is worth it if you are in the process of trying to lighten your load.
    • WhiteBlaze.net… Dedicated to the Appalachian Trail, but there are sub forums which cover topics which are widely applicable.
    • reddit subreddits related to backpacking… useful because people can up/down vote postings which generally (but not always) brings the more useful information toward the top of the threads. A thread about good online resources.
    • Trail Journals: Community site where people who are hiking long trails keep journals / diaries
    • The Lightweight Backpacker Forums… one of the oldest forums focused on light weight backpacking. I fear they are mostly dead now.

    Orgs

    Research Articles

  • Food for Backpacking

    There is a saying that an army runs on it’s stomach. The same could be said for most backpackers and outdoor adventurers. For most, food is not only fuel for the journey, but also a source of enjoyment, comfort, and motivation.

    There is a wide range of approaches taken by people. Some people have strong philosophical beliefs which guide food selection like people who only bring “raw foods”, vegetarians, etc. Some people  prepare full gourmet meals including wine. Some people are completely utilitarian when it comes to food. They select food based on ease of preparation, caloric density, and maybe cost / calories. [Sidenote: I, and several people I know have done trips where most of the calories came from fat. At the time none of us were keto adapted, and were used to a more normal diet. These trips were unpleasant and we were rather constipated. I don’t recommend doing this without first becoming keto adapted.] Some people bring nothing but power bars, snickers, and energy jel so they can eat “on the go” and don’t have to stop to prepare food. I would encourage people to try the “trip diet” at home before trying it in the field to be sure there won’t be an unexpected consequences.

    You should know what sort of person you are, and select food that will help you succeed on your journey. Most people want tasty food, and often bring special snacks to celebrate accomplishments and reward themselves for hard work. Special food can take many forms. For some, it’s a special dessert for the end of the day, a bit of fruit fruits or vegetables, or maybe sardines or salmon roe on a cracker. I encourage people to take food that with enhance their journey.

    Most people end up cooking food. This makes sense because often the highest calorie density will be dried food that is rehydrated and cooked. I have other posts which discuss stoves and cookware that are appropriate when backpacking. In many locations, care must be taken when it comes to food storage.

    How Much Food

    Backpacking, especially when you are gaining a lot of elevation or needing to climb (be it going cross country, technical climbing, or jut crawling over deadfall) burns a lot of calories. I think Ryan did a good job covering this topic in his article How Much Food Should I Pack?.

    Most of us have enough fat stores that running a moderate calorie deficit on a typical trip. Under normal conditions (e.g. person is not in ketosis) people’s bodies can extract 30cal / 1lb of fat / day. So if you are carrying 30lbs of body fat, roughly 900 calories can be easily extracted by your body fat. I have read studies showing that when engaged in aerobic activity this number can be more than 4x this, and keto adapted people can pull enough to power themselves at any level of activity. (insert references).

    When you energy demand exceeds what is readily available and what you can pull from your fat, your body will catabolize your muscles, so you don’t want to run too deep of a deficit. On a longer trek people will get to the point that they will need to consume as many calories as they are burning. There are many thru-hikers who became so lean during their hike that their health decreased rather than improved from all their work.

    Food Selection

    The food people bring is extremely varied as is how the food is packaged. I know some people who just bring ready to eat food, others who bring canned food, some who carry MREs, and still others who only bring pre-packaged freeze dried food targeted at backpackers. [Many people repacking the pre-packaged freeze dried meals before starting their trip.] My suggestion is bring enough food to eat healthy (balanced meals) and try to minimize weight. The backpacker oriented freeze dried meals are easy and light, but you can make meals which are just as light (and cheaper) from your local grocery store.

    While I am not a fanatic about it, I tend to think there is some merit behind eating a low carb diet. One variant of this is Barry Sear’s Zone Diet 40% of your calories from carbohydrates (ideally complex like veggies and beans, not sugar or simple starches), 30% from protein, and 30% from fat.  People who are keto adapted can get away with carrying less food weight because fat has more calories / gram, and they are more able to harvest enough from body fat without impacting muscle.

    The amount of food people require is typically based body weight and activity level. You can calculate your Basal Metabolic Rate which is how many calories you burn doing nothing. Add to that how many calories you will burn due to your backpacking activity. Most people can metabolize around 20 calories for every 1lb of body fat / day without impacting muscles. I am somewhat keto adapted and seem to do better than that. People on keto diets and are fully adapted can fuel themselves from their body fat for extended periods of time. On days that I burn around 4000 calories, I have found 2200kcal enough food. Typically my daily food weighs  18-22oz / day

    I don’t vary what I take a lot.  Sure, I like gourmet meals at home, but when I am on the trail I am willing to eat more or less the same thing multiple days if the food is light and presents little hassle to make and cleanup. My typical three season meals are:

    • Breakfast: Historically South Beach or Zone Perfect bars. Still figure out what I like these days. In colder weather instant oatmeal cooked in the paper packet, maybe with some protein powder added.
    • Snacks/Lunch: Sometimes just eat bars, jerky, and trail mix as I walk. With others who stop for lunch I will typically do Low Fat Salami, Tuna, or smoked salmon, Tortilla, Mustard, with some hard cheese. Crystal Light Lemonade. Shorter trips carrots or other raw veggie. When going fancy various delicates in single serving containers from Cost Plus World Market.
    • Dinner: Couscous or ramen noodles, dehydrated meat or foil sealed meat, olive oil, crystal light lemonade and some dark chocolate or Ferrero Rocher for desert and mint tea. With others often hummus appetizer with veggies.
    • Snacks: Trail mix of edamame, goji berries, almonds, dried cherries, almond, dark or fudge m&ms

    As it gets colder I end up carrying more food (you burn food faster to stay warm).  On cooler trips I take 2500-3000Kcal, and even more in the dead of winter.

    When the weather gets hot, I often find my appetite will often drop off. I often bring no cook foods because I know I won’t be motivated to cook or eat. I will typically shoot for less “heavy” (e.g. hard to digest food), so the ratio of fat and protein to carbs goes down, increase the amount of fresh fruit I take, make sure I have ginger and lemon flavors things (seems to help restore my appetite). I sometimes  bring powdered shakes or a lemon flavored sports drink powder. It you are sweating a lot you need to restore you electrolytes. On trips I failed to do this I was struggling with my legs cramping, and extreme fatigue which cleared after I drank on electrolyte drink mix. Sometimes I will bring couscous which I rehydrate without cooking (needs more time than when cooking).

    Note: folks who do the long trails (like the PCT) will find that after a few weeks or maybe a month will have burned off all their excess fat. Once that has happened, most hikers find themselves eating significantly more than they expect.

    Breakfast

    My preference is to eliminate food preparation so I can get the day started quickly with minimal hassle and don’t have to unpack cooking gear. No mess breakfasts include:

    • 2 Zone Perfect Nutrition Bar 3.6oz [4 balance blocks, ~420 calories] Note: stay away from the bars which have yogurt or chocolate coating because these will melt.
    • 2 Nutra-grain bars – [2fat, 6crb, .5protein, 280 calories]
    • 2 Pop-tarts – [4fat, 8carb, 1protein, 420 calories]
    • 3 South Bar Cinnamon Raisin Bars, [5fat, 4 protein, 5 carb, 140 calories, ~420 calories]

    Many people like a hot breakfast to get them going in the morning. The single serving packets of oatmeal are actually big enough that you can add water to the packet, avoiding getting a cup or bowl dirty. 

    • 2 Oatmeal + Soy Protein Powder, 3oz, [2fat, 4carb, 4protein 302 calories]
    • 2 Oatmeal, 2oz [1fat, 4carb, 1protein, 200 calories]. Add nuts and fruit for extra flavor
    • 2 Flavored Oatmeal, 3.8oz [1fat, 8carb, 1protein, 380 calories]
    • Malt-o-Meal 
    • Powdered protein, Carnation Instant Breakfast, Ensure powders in drink.
    • Granola / Familia / Grapenuts + powdered milk (add cold or boiling water) 4oz [0fat, 8carb 2protein]
    • Freeze dried breakfasts
    • Add Hot Chocolate to any of the above meals 1.1oz [1fat, 3carb, 120 calories]
    • Add Tang / Cool-aid to any of the above meals [carb] or Crystal Light [no cal] 

    Of course if you are at a trailhead and have a cooler you can do all sorts of things such as:

    • Omelets
    • Pancakes
    • French Toast
    • Add sausage or bacon to above

    Snacks / Lunch

    In general I don’t do a big lunch… but eat smaller snacks through out the day’s hiking. In order of my likelihood of using:

    • “Dry” or smoked meats like salami
    • Sealed ready to eat meats: tuna, salmon, spam, etc
    • Jerky (typically beef)
    • PB&* (jelly, honey, nutela in separate dispensers).. or combined in  moose goo… the corn flour provides good mouth feel
    • Hard cheese: Parmigiano-Reggiano (parmesan), Grana Padano, Swiss Gruyere, Cheddar, Gouda, Monterey Jack, can be kept for weeks. Normally I put the cheese in a zipper lock bag, but for longer trips I have sometimes covered day size pieces of cheese in wax  to protect it. Some people will wrap the cheese in a cheese cloth lightly soaked in vinegar: the cloth will soak up oils that might come out of the cheese and the vinegar will keep mold at bay.
    • Individual serving sealed soft cheese: triangles (2oz, 70kcal, 7g fat, 2gm carb, 6gm protein), wine cheese (2oz, 160gram, 14gm fat, 2gm carb, 8gram protein) sold at better grocery stores and stores like Cost Plus.
    • Pita bread, Bagels, or Tortilla for making “sandwiches” with cheese, dried meat, or moose goo.
    • Cliff Bars, Quest Bars, Zone Perfect Nutrition Bars, Power Bars, Tanka Bar, custom designed Element Bars, etc. Caution: the yogurt and chocolate coated melt in heat, and most freeze really solid in cold. 
    • Pemmican
    • Dehydrated fruit (I particularly like dates, papaya, mango, pineapple, apricots & pineapple) 
    • Fresh fruit (apples and oranges are pretty durable) 
    • Trail mix / GORP (most are too high fat for my taste ).  Joel likes macadamia nuts, peanuts, cashews, blueberries, cranberries, banana chips, dark m&ms, dates.
    • Good Dark Chocolate (>=66% cocoa) – much more resistant to melting that cheap milk chocolate, and I think tastes a lot better
    • Just the Cheese Rounds
    • Pringles (in single serving containers), Fritos
    • Sunflower seeds 
    • Wasabi Peas 
    • Dry Roasted Edamame
    • Lipton cup of soap
    • Ensure Powdered Drink/Shake Mix or other powdered Sport Protein Shakes
    • Hummus to Go – 2.4oz, 70kcal, 4gm fat, 8gram carb, 4gm protein
    • Salmon Roe (less expensive than you would think)

    When I first started backpacking I love Kendal Mint Cakes and Space Food Sticks but haven’t taken them on trips in years.

    Dinners

    • Udon noodles – Similar to Ramen but noodles a bit wider and healthier, 3oz [1fat, 6carb, 1.5protein, 275 calories]
    • Ramen noodles 3oz [4fat, 6carb, 1protein, 360 calories]. Lots of ways to supplement to make tasty (ramen recipes)
    • Macaroni &Cheese… Kraft EasyMac works well, 2.1oz [1fat, 4car, 1protein 230 cal]
    • Hummus mix – 3oz mix [6fat, 5carb, 2.5protein, 450 calories]
    • Couscous – 2.8oz [2fat, 7carb, 1protein, 330 calories]
    • Osem Precooked Minute Pasta – 3oz [0fat, 7carb, 1protein, 307 calories]
    • Instant Mash Potatoes (Excel potato pearls and Idahoan brand seem well liked)
    • Tortillas + black beans 
    • Add foil sealed chicken, tuna, salmon, spam, etc to above items for additional protein
    • Add bacon bits to above for additional flavor
    • Add olive oil to above for extra calories
    • MREs 13oz [7fat, 16carb, 3protein, 1250 calories]
    • Tastybite (boil a bag meals which are tasty but somewhat heavy)… for example Chicken Moglai 9oz [10fat, 4carb, 8protein, 640 calories]
    • Hot breakfast foods like oatmeal 
    • Catch some fish, harvest mussels or crabs, etc (Some places this is reliable)
    • First day… let frozen meat thaw as you hike: steak or kabobs over a wood fire
    • Broccoli, Carrots, other durable veggies
    • Various fantasticfoods  and tasteadventure products
    • Nutri System meals
    • Freeze Dried dinner from Mountain House, AlpineAire Foods, etc

    Lots of data in the Long Distance Hiking Food Resupply Tool spreadsheet and GearSkeptic’s Food spreadsheet

    For more ideas take a look at articles Freezer Bag Cooking, wilderness Cooking,  the book Backcountry Cooking From Pack to Plate in 10 Minutes by Dorcas Miller.  Also be sure to check out Pack Light, Eat Right. If you are tired or raiding your local fast food joints for single serving condiments and other meal enhancers, check out Packit Gourment, minimus.biz or alltravelsizes.com. People who are trying to minimize weights often carry fat or protein filled foods and/or suppliment normal food with additives like olive oil, dried milk, and protein powder. You might also what to try some of the ideas in Vegetarian Cooking for backpacking.

    Power Chia Soak (Vegan) Recipe by Erik (~700cal)

    • 3 T Coconut milk powder
    • 3 T Rolled oats
    • 2 T Chia seeds
    • 2 T Hemp seeds
    • 2 T Shredded coconut
    • 2 T Freeze dried raspberries
    • 2 T Cacao nibs
    • 2 T Pecans

    Add H2O as needed. Can be eaten immediately or cold soaked until you get the consistency/texture of your preference.

    Cleanup

    I try to minimize how much cleanup I do. On longer trips and trips where the meal isn’t that messy (say ramon noodles) I will cook and eat out of my pot. When cooking messy meals, I sometimes  boil water in the pot, and then “cook” in a freezer bag which is inside a bag cozy. I eat out of the bag and then pack it out.

    On group trips I use a bowl which is open enough that I can “lick mostly clean”. Otherwise, I will typically using a small nylon scrapper to get an food chunks out of the pot. A bit of sand can work if you are very careful. Often times there still be a oily film on the items scrapped. Some people use hot water and soap, but I try to avoid that because if you don’t rinse well enough you can get diarrhea from ingesting the soap and because I don’t like adding soap, even biodegradable, to the water system. Once I have all the particular matter removed I boil a pot of water and make tea. The boiling sterilizes, the tea has tannic acid which helps cut the grease. You can use the tea-bag itself as a fragile sponge.